Curiosity, Inclusion, and Building Tribes

Transcript

Stuart Crainer:

Hello. I’m Stuart Crainer, co-founder of Thinkers50. Welcome to our weekly LinkedIn Live session, celebrating some of the brightest new stars in the world of management thinking. In January, we announced the Thinkers50 Radar Community for 2024. These are the upcoming management thinkers we believe individuals and organisations should be listening to. The 2024 List was our most eclectic and challenging yet. This year’s Radar is brought to you in partnership with Deloitte and features business thinkers from the worlds of fashion, retail, branding and communications, as well as statisticians, neuroscientists, and platform practitioners from the Nordics to New Zealand and Asia to America. Over the last few months, we’ve been meeting these fantastic thinkers in our weekly sessions, so we hope you’ve been able to join us for some great conversations. As always, please let us know where you’re joining from and send in any comments, questions, observations, queries at any time during the 45-minute session.

Our guest today is Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey. Stephanie is global head of inclusion programs for women of colour at Google. She graduated from the Stevens Institute of Technology in electrical engineering. After working in infrastructure engineering at Lehman Brothers, she transitioned into the digital media industry spending the next 10 years working on big data, forecasting and inventory management for Forbes Media, Fox News Digital, and NBC News Digital. Stephanie is the founder of Mother AI, a weekly AI learning journey series designed specifically for working parents and caregivers. And also of Parenting Backwards, which create spaces and experiences for parents to develop parenting skills in the same way they develop their personal and professional skills. Stephanie, welcome.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Thank you. Thank you, Stuart.

Stuart Crainer:

How did you make the journey from having a degree in electrical engineering to where you are now? It’s a long way.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yes. It is not a straight path. It’s a curved path. And as I encourage many folks who ask the same question that you do, I can look back now and see how all of the dots connected. But being on the journey in real time, I did not know where I was going. But I’m teaching the lessons that I’ve learned, which is you try new things and you get so many pieces of data to learn whether you will do that thing again or whether you will never do that thing again. And then you make a next step and you decide whether you will do that thing again or never do that thing again and you take a next step. And so that’s, I’ll say, a strategy now, looking back on it, as to where I’ve been.

But going into the details of it, from the age of 10, I knew that I wanted to be an engineer. It’s because I had an uncle who worked at IBM, who bought me my first Gateway computer. For those of you who remember the black and white cow spotted boxes, that was part of their marketing. And he would come over and he would open it up and show me all of the parts and just give me the background of how it all works. And I was fascinated and sold at the age of 10. And so my mom took action right away and put me in every STEM program before the STEM acronym was as popular as it is now, after school on the weekends and in the summer. So I got my 10,000 hours in of STEM. And so that’s where I accepted my journey into Stevens Institute of Technology where I majored in electrical engineering.

And so during that portion of my life, I was part of what’s called their co-op program. A five-year program. Every other semester I got a working opportunity for the entire semester, which is about give or take three months. And so by the time my senior year happened, and I’ll never forget this, I was walking down the main street in the town that my school was in, and I get a phone call from Lehman Brothers that said, “Hey, we want to offer you a full-time role.” And this was August of my senior year, so just as it was getting started. And so I enthusiastically, and maybe too quickly because you’re supposed to negotiate, said yes. But that was the pinnacle of… I said I wanted to be an engineer and now I’ve got this engineering job ready and waiting for me. All I had to do was graduate.

And so graduate, I did. Went on to Lehman Brothers for about two years, but this was the moment that set off my first turn or pivot that ultimately has led me to where I am. That first experience, I was a young, black woman in the engineering space at a financial company, and it was a very lonely experience. I was working with folks who were just at different life stages than I was, and I didn’t know the word mentorship, I didn’t know the word sponsorship, and I didn’t know how to articulate that I needed support and help. And so while I was there suffering in silence, I just spent every night figuring out, okay, I love the technical aspect, and so I want to be able to really nerd out in my role, but I also then want to be more front-facing type sales, e-commerce. I was trying to figure it out. It was around 2008 at the time, so e-commerce was just blowing up at the time.

And so I spent a year looking for a new opportunity. And I’ll never forget this, Mike Smith of Forbes said, “You went to Stevens?” I said, “Yes.” “You have a degree in electrical engineering?” And I said, “Yes.” And he’s like, “I know your brain. I’m hiring you.” And so that then became where that pivot took me into, which was digital media. Now leaving Lehman was really tough for me because I was in that engineering space that was … It felt like that is literally what it meant to be an engineer as a little kid, my little kid dream realised. But then I got to use all those engineering skills, hypothesis building, reverse engineering, analytical mindset and apply that into a business realm.

And so I started off at Forbes. I moved to Fox News Digital and supported their news portfolio and then NBC Universal where I supported the vestiture of Microsoft from the NBC products. And so I went into that world and was climbing the corporate ladder: director, multiple reports, all of these things. And then I got a call from a friend who said, “Google’s hiring. I think this role could be great for you.” And I was like, “I’m doing this thing climbing the corporate ladder over here. I don’t think I want to leave.” And everyone around me said, “When Google calls you pick up the phone.” And so I said, okay. And so I went through that intensive but fun hiring process. Got the role there at Google, and I’ve been there now for 10 years. 10 years.

Stuart Crainer:

So you must be due another pivot.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

I did have a pivot at Google, but we’ll get to that I’m sure through our conversation.

Stuart Crainer:

So in what ways now do you put into practice the skills you learned in electrical engineering? That hypothesis and all that scientific thinking, do you put that into practice now, do you think?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Absolutely. I think going from engineering to the business world proper to inclusion, having that tried discipline experience has allowed me to use all those skills across those disciplines. When it comes to inclusion and diversity, equity and inclusion and belonging, when we are working in service of people, of our employees, we still need to use data to inform our strategy, both qualitative and quantitative. And so we need to have a hypothesis of… I think this could solve the problem. What are the metrics that we then need to apply to that to see whether something is successful? And so it’s that sort of data collection and integrity rigour that I apply to the work that I do now to make a hypothesis, test the thing and be able to iterate quickly as to whether it’s working because I’ve chosen the right KPIs or have at least set up a system that allows me to check in and say, okay, is this right? Okay. It’s not. It’s harming our community or it’s not just effective overall. Let’s shift and try something else within a reasonable time with reasonable metrics that we can be able to determine its success.

Stuart Crainer:

So it’s the metrics that back up the soft stuff. It’s that combination of the hard data and the important humanity of an organisation.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Right. The hard data and the stories. Particularly in this work, but I think even when you’re selling a product or service, folks want the data, the numbers, and there’s a subset of folks who are like, “I just want to see the numbers, and that’s how we make a decision.” And then there are folks who are like, “I just want to hear the stories and that’s going to move me and make me want to take action X, Y, or Z.” But to have the combination of both the data and the stories that can refute any roadblocks or pushback or just scepticism around a thing, bringing that together makes it just a more solid infrastructure for which to build a strategy, program, product, service.

Stuart Crainer:

Who were your mentors along the way? So there was Mike who could see into your brain.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yes. Hey, Mike.

Stuart Crainer:

Who else was there?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Melonie Parker. She’s our chief diversity officer at Google. And not only has she been a mentor, but she’s been a sponsor. And this is an important distinction where a mentor can work with you through a thing, but a sponsor is talking about you when you’re not in the room. They’re bringing you into spaces that you didn’t even think that you were ready for or should be in, and they’re putting their name on the line for you to back you up because of their belief and proof that you can get the job done. Lisa Nichols is also a dear friend and mentor of mine that works on the inside of me. Who I am and who I want to be and how I want to show myself into the world. Because on the work front and the professional front, you could just be on top of your game and getting all of these accolades and accomplishments, but if you don’t feel good on the inside, then you don’t really get to enjoy the fruits of your labour. Everyone else is giving you high-fives and you just want to crawl in the corner. And so it’s really important to do that self work as you go through your professional journey so you can feel as good as you look on paper.

Stuart Crainer:

Thank you for everyone who’s joining us, please send in your questions for Stephanie at any time. Stephanie, I think it’s a really important distinction you made there between being a sponsor and a mentor. So you see a sponsor as they’re an advocate for you?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yes.

Stuart Crainer:

They’re going out into the organisation, actively talking you up, whereas a mentor is a more personal relationship and by its nature, it’s private.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yeah. The mentor is standing next to you, the sponsor is standing in front of you, opening the door, ushering you in. That’s the way that I see it.

Stuart Crainer:

And we need more sponsors and mentors.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yes. Well, I think the mentorship is the easy part of the equation. Particularly for women, there are many studies that say that women are over coached, over mentored, but under sponsored. And so that sponsorship piece is that connection that goes deeper than let me just help you here but let me pull you along and pull you up. And so it’s being able to provide visibility. So the sponsor needs to have the power and to activate that power in service of the goals that you have. And so they have to have the ability to say, “Hey, I’m bringing you to this conference. I am nominating you for this thing. I am bringing you in on this project, and I don’t need anyone’s approval because I’m the decision maker.”

And so there’s a great opportunity for decision makers to realise that power and look for opportunities to enter into a mutually beneficial relationship with someone who has shown great potential. And the important piece about the mutually beneficial is that it’s not a volunteer assignment. The sponsor gets as much out of that bond and connection or relationship as the sponsee or the protege does. Because now they have access to a different part of the organisation, a different perspective that they can use. Some intel that they can get from the individual that they’re working with and the commitment and brainpower of someone who is just excited to finally be seen, heard and valued and get the opportunity to really showcase their brilliance.

Stuart Crainer:

Tell me about the Google experience. So Google approached you?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yeah. Oh-

Stuart Crainer:

You were advised to seize the opportunity, but how did that all work? I think Google’s one of those organisations … There’s very few organisations in the world that almost everyone would like to work for or be involved with in some way, and they’re very high on that list. So what was the experience like and how’d you get an understanding of how Google works and the culture?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Sure. Oh, I love this story because it was such a whirlwind and fun experience. So a friend of mine who was already within Google made the referral for me for the role. It was within digital media. And so again, I had all the name brand experience that was directly related to the role. So that was the easy part. I think the way in which I was being interviewed … this was 2014, it was very much focused on, okay, your hard skills, but how do you think? How do you think? And this is what made the interview experience so different. I had a total of eight interviews over the course of about two months. So that was intensive. I was getting a little nervous of how many excuses I could give about why I’m so dressed up or needed to take off for lunch.

But in my last interview, I was in a room with this gentleman, David Goodman, and he had one question for me in the interview, and it was, “I’m a publisher and I want to make $100 million next year. You’re Google, tell me how I’m going to make that money.” That was it. That was the instructions. And he’s like, “There goes the whiteboard.” And so I get up to the whiteboard and I’m like, okay. And so then I start asking questions. Okay. What type of publisher are you? What products are you selling? What CPMs do you currently have? Now I’m getting into jargon for digital advertising. But I started just asking questions to create a picture of what type of publisher and what their just details of the organisations are. So that was part one.

Then I said, “Okay, well these are the types of products that you could get into.” And then we just started making up numbers. “What’s your audience size?” And he’s like, “A hundred thousand.” I’m like, “Okay. If your audience size is this, then this is how many eyeballs get on three ads per page.” And I just started working through it. And so after about 15, 20 minutes of going back and forth, he was making things up on the spot. I was asking these questions, and we got to… they wouldn’t make the 100 million in the first year. And he was like, “That’s it right there.” And I’m like, “What?” I’m sweating under my armpits. What is happening? And he’s like, “I wanted to see how you think. What are the questions that you’re asking? If you have no direction, if you have no information, the biggest value that we can get is understanding that you are going to think and ask the obvious questions and the unforeseen questions so that you can make your best educated guess.” And I was like, “Wow.” I was like, “Could we do another one?” And that was it. That was my last interview. And shortly thereafter, I got the offer. This time I did negotiate and so said, so done. I’ve been there for a decade now.

Stuart Crainer:

So how do you think? It seems to me how you think goes back to your initial degree in electrical engineering. That scientific approach, interrogating, asking the right questions.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

I’ve learned to use the word curiosity instead of being nosy.

Stuart Crainer:

It is the same though, isn’t it?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

It is the same. I’m nosy. I want to know. I want to know all the details. And I think leaning into that curiosity has served me well because it’s taken me out of my realm of just the path in front of me. I know the path. I know I’ve got to get all of this information, but what about this angle? What about these cross-functional teams? How can I glean information from them or maybe bring them into the conversation? And I think my time at Google, I spent a lot of time asking folks who were their questions. Because for me, first generation American, first generation college graduate. And so I came into Google thinking, hey, I made it. I guess I’ll just retire here because this is the top. And in the conversations that I had with so many of my colleagues is that, yeah, Google’s a great place, but it’s a stepping stone for who I want to be. So there were so many folks who were getting their MBAs, their PhDs, opening yoga studios, plans to move abroad. Their goals were endless, and Google was just an important and a meaningful step on their journey.

And so leaning into the curiosity into their journeys ultimately shaped then how I showed up. I was like, oh, Google isn’t the end all be all. It’s just a place where I can learn and grow and bring together all this information to inform who I want to be and what that looks like next. And so that then informed the pivot that I did from the publishing space into employee engagement and specifically inclusion. So I spent four or five years talking to CEOs of all the major publishers. I supported them in Latin America, Canada, and within the US. And so I would sit there with CEOs, CTOs, COOs and talk to them about the investments that they’ve made. And here’s what you can do. Just click this button within your dashboard and you can make an extra million dollars. And oftentimes they’d be like, “Great. Sounds good.” But also there was a large number that would be like, “Nope. Not interested. Don’t need the million.”

And so then it started to build this disconnect with me around, wow, you can just say no to a million dollars. I have so many ideas of what can take place with a million dollars. And so what that awakened in me is an interest in using that skill set of analysis and then creating a story based on that data on what you should do next, but applying that to people who are in need and so in a different perspective, being able to pull that in. And so I did a pivot, which took about a year and a half from our global sales organisation into our global people operations organisation.

Stuart Crainer:

Yeah. It’s interesting about the Google culture. Do you think that the asking of questions, that curiosity is part of the culture? And the second thing is you said Stephanie, that people are there to improve. They see the organisation as part of their development as much as an employer and that they’ve got a realistic … That it’s not a match forever.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Stuart Crainer:

Yeah. So it is a match for as long as it works for both sides, obviously.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yeah. And I think that’s true for anything in life, personal, professional relationships and the places where you spend most of your time. And I’ve actually developed a course that I teach to young women around having the language to describe who they are and who they want to be and the goals that they have in service of getting to who they want to be. When you have that language, you are able to make much more distinct decisions that are based on logic instead of emotion and longing. And so having this experience with so many colleagues, they’re like, “No, no, no, no. This company is great, but it’s still a company and it doesn’t define who I am. It’s just part of my journey to get to who I am.” That’s an incredible piece of wisdom that, like I said, that I carry with me, not only through making the decision … I have to choose this company and this company has to choose me every day, every month, every year. So that you’re not finding yourself five years down the line like, how did I get here? How am I still here stuck and unhappy?

It’s because we often need to take the time to figure out the language of us, of ourselves. What do we want? What do we like? What do we want to be? Who is it? How do we want to be described and what do we want to be known for? And so doing the work of developing that narrative allows you this freedom to move through an organisation and move through life with an intentionality that is sweet. That’s the best way that I could describe it.

Stuart Crainer:

But people spend a long time in unhappy relationships, don’t they?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Of course.

Stuart Crainer:

It’s the same in organisations as relationships.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yes. Comfortability. The fear of the unknown. I was just in a conversation yesterday with Jennifer McCollum and she’s the CEO of Catalyst, which is an organisation that focuses on research around women in the workplace. But she has this great book called In Her Own Voice, and she talks about the seven hurdles to reaching the pinnacle of where you want to be. And it talked about that inner critic. The inner critic. The roadway of the inner critic that really can prevent you and freeze you into a position, a place, a relationship that doesn’t serve you. And so many of us sit in that because rather be comfortable than fear of the unknown.

But it’s through I think, sponsorship, mentorship, coaching. We could have a whole other session on coaching. Having someone that can hold you accountable, that can know the details of what you’re going through and where you want to go, that can hold your hand through any challenge, good or bad, that you’re experiencing in your life so that you can make the best of it. I tell people I stay coached up no matter the space that I’m in. And it’s something that I’ve only learned within about the past four or five years. But each season of my life, I have a coach that can help usher me through that season. So that in addition to my close circle, inner circle of friends and family that I discuss things with, that I have someone that I’m talking about where I’m at and where I’m going each week and can give me advice and perspective to keep me moving forward.

Stuart Crainer:

Each week?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Each week. Yeah. Coaching each week. A weekly coaching session, yeah. And it’s… I do mine for three months and then take the time to reflect on those three months and see where I am and then figure out when the next coach or is it a continuation. But giving time for it to breathe so that I can actually put into practice all of those things that I’ve learned and see what those outcomes are so then I can make a decision on what I need next.

Stuart Crainer:

So you’re global head of inclusion programs for women of colour at Google. And where are we now in the discussion about and practice of inclusion?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yeah. First of all, the role that I have is incredibly unique. That title does not exist in a lot of other spaces, if any. And I’ll give some background as to how it came about. Data informs strategy. And we’ve talked a lot about data. And the data that we’ve used is both qualitative and quantitative. So we have our diversity annual report that gets put out every year that gives hiring representation and attrition numbers broken out by demographic. And then we have our internal data or our qualitative data, which is our employee survey. And that again takes information from how do you feel about the internal processes that we have to what are your sentiments of inclusion and belonging within this organisation? And so when we have that, and especially having the demographic breakout, we’re able to see where there are disparate experiences among the organisation and then we can apply resources to that.

And so that’s how my role came about because we saw disparate experiences for black, Latina, indigenous, Asian women. And so the goal there was to invest resources to support those communities. What it also did though was provide a framework again, to support all of our communities. Inclusion is not just based on race and gender. It’s cultural, it’s religious, it’s sexual orientation, it’s so many other facets. And the way in which we defined diversity or marginalised groups when I started and where we are now is completely expanding and it’s expanding every day.

A few years ago, we would’ve never considered Ukrainians to be a marginalised community. Today with what we’re seeing playing out in the news, marginalised communities, that is growing. And so we have a solid framework on what we initially built for women of colour that can apply to all intersectional communities. Because the goal with DEI is to ensure that everyone is having the best experience within an organisation. What that means, and the levers and the tools that we use to ensure that just look different for the community so that we can meet them where they are.

The challenges and experiences that we have in the US can resonate in other regions, but it’s not a one to one. It’s not a lift and shift. And so we have to have that flexibility to be able to use a framework, but then curate it specifically for the community that’s going to experience it.

Stuart Crainer:

Magdalena asked the question from Denmark. What are the barriers to inclusive culture and what is the medicine for that? I think the medicine is more available than it used to be.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yeah. That’s a great question, Magdalena. And I believe that is something that, again, it’s a societal thing that we need to solve for as a society. And so corporations are on the hook for, okay, what are you doing about DEI? What are you doing to solve it? But we need as humans to figure out what is that medicine? How do we understand each other? How do we not assume bad intent but also hold people accountable? And so it’s a balance of understanding and … Not understanding. Having the skillset to endure tough conversations that doesn’t result in just throwing up your hands, cancel culture, dragging people, and just completely obliterating their lives. There’s a space where we can have deeply meaningful conversations that can say, okay, I don’t get it, but I understand you human to human, that we have this connection and we can still figure this out together. And I don’t mean this to sound like woo woo, we just need to all hear each other and get along. But it’s a big part of the puzzle that’s missing right now in many of the crisis moments that we’re seeing play out everywhere.

Stuart Crainer:

It’s still a nice idea, isn’t it? You describe yourself as a tribe builder.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yes.

Stuart Crainer:

What do you mean by that?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Finding community. When I left Lehman Brothers because I didn’t feel like I had anyone that looked like me, that was in the same life stage as me that I could connect with, that I had that community connection, I left. I left something that I had dreamed about from the age of 10. And so to this moment in this role of being global head of inclusion, I’m solving for the Stephanie that was 18, 19, 18 when I graduated and started there and didn’t have a community to say, Hey, I know it’s tough, but let’s figure it out together. Hey, I know it’s tough, but you don’t have to leave in the darkness of night. We can figure this out.

And so I’ve built up that community for me personally. I’ve had great friends. Shout out to Heidi Smith who is CTO of my tribe that really grounds me and supports me in the best of ways through 3:00 AM text that says, “You got this,” or, “I haven’t heard from you. What’s going on? Let me get down in the rabbit hole with you and build that space of understanding where you can vent and then you can strategize what your next move is.” And again, it’s professionally or personally. It’s just in life you need that community.

And oftentimes, particularly for women of colour or those at the intersection of multiple identities, you’re constantly scanning a room for that community. And so it’s not always going to exist on your team, it’s not always going to exist in your organisation. But we do have … I feel … I’ll speak for me, I feel a duty to create those spaces so that even if you’re not experiencing it here, you could find it over here. And I do that in my personal life, and I do that thankfully as an employee within an organisation that values that need to create spaces for folks to just not feel so alone when they are navigating their career and their life.

Stuart Crainer:

Let’s talk quickly about, you’ve got a couple really interesting initiatives. Mother AI.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yes.

Stuart Crainer:

Can you just briefly describe what that is?

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yes. I wish we had more time for that too. I am an executive at a tech company. I’m also a wife and a mother of three children. And the parenting journey that I’ve gone on has been so special to me. And the premise behind, particularly Mother AI, is teaching other parents how to leverage AI not only for themselves to save time, sanity, and resources for the things that they have to do on our never-ending to-do list, but also to be able to advocate on behalf of their children. The world that we lived in, discerning the difference between pre-technology and post technology is not the world that they experience today and will experience when they’re in college or they’re going out and looking for jobs or they’re raising their families. And so all of these things are being built right now and the diversity of voice is not there.

The voice of parents and moms who are doing this thing day in, day out for decades is not in the room that is making the decisions and building the products and services that will impact our children there. And I am filling in the gap of bringing parents along this journey so they can have a voice in what’s happening. No one’s talking to us. We are being wholly ignored as parents, and I am dedicated to making a change so that our voice is in the space for what gets built through AI for our kids’ generation and those thereafter.

Stuart Crainer:

And you’re also involved with Parenting Backwards.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Yes. So again, the parenting journey has been critical to me. And so I started off with Parenting Backwards, and the philosophy behind that is parents having the same spaces, because I’m a space builder, a tribe builder. But also the same resources to build out their parenting skills as they do their professional and personal skills. We talked about coaches and mentors and sponsors, and there’s all sorts of training and summits and conferences and opportunities to build who we want to be on the inside, who we want to be within our career and in our lives. But on the side of parenting, why do you react the way that you do? Why do you parent the way that you parent? How do you want to live the life that you envision for you and your children? Where’s the intentional and creative spaces for us to think through that? And so this has been my passion project that I’m building and figuring out in real time, but really want to invite folks there who are looking for ways to be intentional about their parenting journey, as well as finding age-appropriate and creative ways to bring your children on the journey with you.

So whether that’s through financial health, physical health, all of the self-development things that we are investing ourselves in. I’m constantly thinking when I receive that information, okay, how can I teach my teen that? How can I teach my seven-year-old how to apply that or learn about it or have that language in their lexicon so that they’re not 40 and learning these lessons for the first time, but they’re 10 and they’re getting a sense of it. And in the moments as they get older, they can have those seeds that were planted and really implement them into life. And so my mission and mantra in life is that I am all in and standing for women, particularly mothers who are invested in creating the best life for themselves and their family. And so I am doing the work of creating these opportunities for elevation and investment and intention for them both personally and professionally.

Stuart Crainer:

To find out more information about Stephanie’s work and Mother AI and Parenting Backwards. Look at iamslg.com as a starting point.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

And itsmotherai.com as well. I-T-Smotherai.com. Thank you so much, Stuart. This was a great conversation.

Stuart Crainer:

Stephanie, we’re out of time. I think we could have talked all day. Brilliant stories and a brilliant example of … And I think there’s stuff about sponsorship and mentoring is really interesting in the difference between them and the importance of coaching. And the relationship between individuals and corporations is really interesting as well. It’s something you’ve brought out, Stephanie. Thank you very much. Really appreciate your work and insights. Next week we are joined by Martin Gonzalez and Des will be talking to him. So thank you everyone who’s joined us today. And thank you, Stephanie.

Stephanie Leblanc-Godfrey:

Bye everyone.